troy_at_kde: Why KDE 4 Matters

Troy Unrau (

troy_at_kde) wrote,
@ 2007-08-15 13:22:00

Entry tags:

kde

Why KDE 4 Matters
So I was over at headrush.typepad.com as I randomly surfed the interweb, and found a funny image there, which I repost here. (Hopefully attribution is enough to satisfy the copyright types, and forgive me for my hotlinking...)

And this explains why KDE 4.0 is an important event, and why we never would be able to get there with incremental, *ubuntu-style releases. This is also why Gnome is just now starting to talk about their long term future, since they've been stuck in the incremental stuff for a while and I'm getting the feeling that some of them feel trapped in the cycle.

Cheers to KDE 4 and the crossing of the Big Fricken' Wall.

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(Post a new comment)

	don't agree (Anonymous) 2007-08-15 06:56 pm UTC (link)
	Can't say I agree with much of what you've said, especially as you haven't defined what the "Big Frickin' Wall" or "Where you NEED to be" actually are, nor why said wall can't be crossed in incremental steps. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: don't agree (Anonymous) 2007-08-15 07:07 pm UTC (link)
	Nor why you think KDE 4 couldn't have happened in incremental steps. Surely the introduction of the various components over time could have reached the same point as it is now? And finally, is revolutionary improvement the same as just rewriting everything? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: don't agree - (Anonymous), 2007-08-15 07:19 pm UTC

Re: don't agree - (Anonymous), 2007-08-15 08:57 pm UTC

Re: don't agree - (Anonymous), 2007-08-29 10:14 pm UTC

Re: don't agree - (Anonymous), 2007-08-15 07:09 pm UTC

Ease up a bit...
(Anonymous)
2007-08-15 07:25 pm UTC (link)

Let's try to take this in a positive aspect guys. Look at it this way. Sometimes when you are doing incremental improvements the ideas are small... They can be big at times but like the name describes they come over time. What revolutionary improvements brings to the table is many big ideas coming together at once. The ideas lead to explosions of inspiration and due to them coming out at once they are easier to piece together to form one whole new piece.

That wall could be looked at as the separation of perspectives. With that explosion of ideas, its sometimes easier to see things from a new perspective. A good example of this is Plasma, and the ZUI. I know ZUI isn't exactly new but its part of the revolutionary puzzle. Aaron has added some features to the ZUI that haven't ever been discussed plus we have all seen all the great new aspects of plasma and its APIs, data engines, etc. This is what comes together to bring a new perspective of what the desktop should be!

(Reply to this)

	But XYZ is technically defined as UWZ... (Anonymous) 2007-08-15 08:25 pm UTC (link)
	Hey, lighten up a bit you semantics freaks! You've gotta admit that is one cool diagram. It certainly made me grin. : ) (Reply to this) (Thread)

	Re: But XYZ is technically defined as UWZ... (Anonymous) 2007-08-15 08:50 pm UTC (link)
	exactly, that's probably it's biggest feat ;-) (Reply to this) (Parent)

	Awesome markey.myopenid.com 2007-08-15 11:48 pm UTC (link)
	This is awesome Troy, and very valid. Don't let the gnome trolls distract you :) (Reply to this)

Pretty arrogant...
(Anonymous)
2007-08-16 12:56 am UTC (link)

You could have just posted a short paragraph of WHY you feel that the Gnome release schedule is not right and the KDE one is, but you found this image that supposedly does the work for you. It's pretty arrogant to say the least. There's nothing wrong with the release cycle Gnome has adopted - there are many advantages to their approach that KDE cannot match, and vice versa. I don't think KDE can ever get as stable as Gnome releases, and the thought that goes into the design aspect and interface guidelines of their applications is something that sorely goes over the heads of the KDE community. I'm sorry but that's just the truth. I'm a Gnome user looking forward to KDE4 if it can fix the many problems that the community has expressed for and against the DE - but I can safely say that at this point, comparing how far both desktop environments have come from their inception, it's KDE that needs a major revision, breakthrough release ala KDE4 - not Gnome.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

Re: Pretty arrogant...
(Anonymous)
2007-08-16 07:46 am UTC (link)

Sigh... The arrogant, idiotic, I-love-gnome-and-KDE-sucks troll. Why are you even here?

Anyway, the current architecture of KDE is over 7 years old. The last major rewrite was KDE 2, which was released back in 2000. The current architecture of Gnome, on the other hand, dates back to Gnome 2 which was released in 2002.

Basically, KDE has been operating on progressive improvements for the last 7 years. Gnome has only been doing this for the last 3 or 4 years.

There's a whole heap of stuff that's been put off from KDE 3 simply because it'd break too many other things. All of that stuff has been put into KDE 4.

But if you compare the architecture of KDE and Gnome, you'll basically find that Gnome doesn't have any. The Gnome guys have been gradually introducing new common libraries over the past few years to handle things that KDE has been doing since 2000. You can progressively add things, but you can't take things away, or radically change them.

Eventually, Gnome will catch up to KDE, and find that they need to make major changes that would break compatibility.

Since Gnome was started a few years later than KDE, it's development cycle tends to lag behind KDE by about two years. Expect discussion about all the things developers would like to do but can't sometime next year, followed by a huge upheaval and surge of new development in about two or three years time.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: Pretty arrogant... - (Anonymous), 2007-08-16 08:07 am UTC

Re: Pretty arrogant... - (Anonymous), 2007-08-16 07:09 pm UTC

Re: Pretty arrogant... - (Anonymous), 2007-08-17 08:14 am UTC

Re: Pretty arrogant... - (Anonymous), 2007-08-16 07:17 pm UTC

Re: Pretty arrogant... - (Anonymous), 2007-08-16 11:25 pm UTC

Re: Pretty arrogant... - (Anonymous), 2007-08-17 05:38 am UTC

eeanm
2007-08-16 01:37 pm UTC (link)

Ubuntu-style releases I think would work just fine for KDE applications. We [Amarok] already sync ourselves to Ubuntu release cycles. And well for years Amarok has had a frequent feature releases. I remember 1.3.0-1.3.4 or so, every release was done every two weeks and they all had new features.

Obviously something huge like KDE 4 or Amarok 2 you do need more time. So much new architecture. But really a change like KDE 3->4 only comes every 5 years or so, most of the time a 6 month release cycle makes sense. Shuttleworth acknowledged that he wasn't refering to KDE 4 when he suggested we adopt a 6 month release cycle.

Anyways this is my opinion for apps. For libraries it does seem too frequent, though not being a library dev I can't really say. There would be some benefit by giving kdelibs its own release cycle, seperate from the rest of KDE's release cycle I think.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

	What? (Anonymous) 2007-08-16 02:37 pm UTC (link)
	When did KDE developers start syncing themselves to match the release cycle of One distribution which is GNOME based? How bad is that for other distributions? (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

Re: What? -

eeanm, 2007-08-16 03:05 pm UTC

Re: What? - (Anonymous), 2007-08-17 01:16 am UTC

Re: What? -

eeanm, 2007-08-17 06:47 am UTC

Re: What? - (Anonymous), 2007-08-17 08:17 am UTC

Re: What? -

eeanm, 2007-08-17 08:23 am UTC

Re: What? -

eeanm, 2007-08-17 08:38 am UTC

Re: What? -

eeanm, 2007-08-17 08:37 am UTC

Re: What? - (Anonymous), 2007-08-17 08:23 am UTC

Re: What? -

eeanm, 2007-08-17 08:58 am UTC

Re: What? -

eeanm, 2007-08-16 03:07 pm UTC

Re: What? - (Anonymous), 2007-08-17 01:18 am UTC

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eeanm, 2007-08-17 06:55 am UTC

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